The Criticism of Scientology and Open-Mindedness

[Grundy]

I know that for the most part, everyone here has a negative viewpoint of everything "scientological" .. and many with reason.

But it doesnt alter the fact that many have achieved some gains. Myself included.

If you expect to help scientologists see the abuses being committed by their church, you cannot harp against the subject as a whole and expect them to listen to you.

It basically indicated to them that you ARE just judgemental and close-minded. You have no respect for the rights of any person to believe as he wants.

If you told a christian that there is no god and that Jesus Christ was a con man of epic proportions, would you expect someone who has spent years in the chistian churches to listen to you? Especially if they felt that they had felt touched by the Holy Spirit?

See my point?

Yes, Grundy, I definitely see your point and agree completely. I have no doubt that you had gains from Scientology. Respect for the beliefs of others is very important. As you well know, ESK was not set up to be an all-out bashfest of all things Scientology. The lies and abuses coming from the totalitarian top are where the anti-CoS energy should be focused.

[Grundy]

I agree completely .. (this thread was a result of a comment on "Let me be the first " thread

Well you know, I have no problems with the beliefs of scientology. As far fetched as they may seem to alot of people. I grew up in it and my problem is with the policies and control factors that the COS uses. Of course I have recieved some gains as well. I think Scio. has great courses for communication & comprehension. But so does college for about 1/4 the price. This is something I have wondered since I was a kid...If these courses hold the "key to life" and scientology is the only way of salvation, then why the hell do you have to buy everything? It's a scam. I'm sorry, but you compared this to telling a christian there is no christ. Well many christians have been raped by thier priests and are prettypissed off about it. Scientology is full of corruptness and mental rape so to speak. I am living proof of that. There's alot of people who have lived through Scientology's bullshit. NOw they are coming out of the woodwork to speak about it. It's about time.

I agree with you Grundy, and actually I find many of the beliefs of SCN in alignment with a lot of new thought systems , though I've recently been made aware that this is a very SP thing to say - but hell. I wish that critics (and many do) would take the focus off Xenu (um, virgin birth, reptilian conspiracies anyone?) and back onto the fair game, child neglect, violation of child labor laws etc.

I've had people defend Scn by referring to the priest abuses in the Catholic Church (also a cult, IMO) but then again, in the Catholic church you can get f***ed by a priest for free, whereas it'll cost you a half a mil to get screwed by Scientology.


I've also seen this statement a few times:

“You won't always be here. But before you go, whisper this to your sons and their sons - "The work was free. Keep it so." ~L. Ron Hubbard

Is there any validation of this? Is it an actual statement from LRH, meaning did he write it down anywhere or is this just something the Freezone likes to claim? Just wondering because LRH, while he may have been a con man and a narcissist , may have also been initially well-intentioned, though I haven't seen much too support that.

"I wish that critics (and many do) would take the focus off Xenu (um, virgin birth, reptilian conspiracies anyone?) and back onto the fair game, child neglect, violation of child labor laws etc."

I wonder about that... how marginal groups (deservedly so or not) are often forced deeper into marginality (is that a word?) by the irrelevant or insulting outside criticism. This happens partially as a survival technique to identify and connect with one's peers. So, in that way what we might call Scientology culture is a lot like gaming culture, or Hip Hop culture, or Amish culture. It's a response to outside pressures.

Of course, it could also work against the leadership of the Church, too. The folks that live through the absurdities foisted on them by the Church leadership develop their own ways of coping, and develop their own subtle subculture in response.

When an outside critic attempts to engage someone from a community, that critic had better have some sort of reasonable knowledge of what is real for that community. The Xenu stuff is I'm sure is more nuanced than I can possibly understand. It's the little stuff that is more vivid to me, the fact that simple things like the act of going out to buy the papers can be liberating, or the madness and indignity of that nightmarish musical chairs episode. I think it's the universals, the things that all humans can be reasonably expected to be able to relate to, that have more resonance.

The use of fear, humiliation, the predatory retailing of religion, the lies and the venality of the leadership. THAT'S what gets to me. The Thetan story is at its root just a story, and I can take it or leave it. But the con is vicious and inhuman. That's where the fight is.

I used to hate the cult because of it's story (the Xenu thing, you know)
as years go by, I start to realize the problem with $cn shouldn't be its belief, but rather their practice

I don't care if they believe in the existence of Xenu (after all, there were people who believed that the "Da Vinci Code" was for real)
The story was just something that you learn about the religion, more like special features in a DVD (while the practices are the movie itself)
but obviously, you never join a religion base on its story, but its own practices

The real problem is the Sa Org not Scientology as a whole.
Yet you can't have Scientology without the Sea Org. Or you can't at this point.
If Scientology were just that, I'd still be interested for the most part, but it's not the case. You have "big brother" always watching.

[Grundy]

I use to love scn tech for 30 years, intil I found out were ron stole most of his work..and The real O T is not ron...its EDGER CAYCE the book is called the COMPANION, compiled by Ernest Frejer ron stole his work took god out of the picture then added his sifi stuf...and he has the real bridge. cayce when I frist picked up the book I was so bull headed with scn info fixed concepts.. or stuck view point on ron.. I was a complete non beliver in god...this came from being a x scn kid intil I hit 48 yars old this took me 900 hrs of reading, before I converted and did a 180 turn in my life.. and now I am a edger cayce lover... wow did I have a lot of misunderstanding .. my life is so happey no greed no money no hate no fighting all free just the cost of the book... and the REAL BRIDGE. there was nothing cayce could not do..some of his work is exact as L RON and cayce passed on in 1945, the whole track, bodey entideys. there no question not answer perfectly there is just not enought I could say about this man cayce...and most people love cayce.not this your a freak your into that scientology stuff who hurt people my life is great now and I do my bridge ever day which is the LAW OF ONE, BRIGE... and how you can walk into narvania....forget engrams its all karma all sickness and mental proplems are karmic..you can do dianetic and scn for 1000 years and if your karma is bad you will get whats coming to ya lol/